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What Do Linux Kernel Developers Think of Rust?

Sun, 02/09/2025 - 12:34
Keynotes at this year's FOSDEM included free AI models and systemd, reports Heise.de — and also a progress report from Miguel Ojeda, supervisor of the Rust integration in the Linux kernel. Only eight people remain in the core team around Rust for Linux... Miguel Ojeda therefore launched a survey among kernel developers, including those outside the Rust community, and presented some of the more important voices in his FOSDEM talk. The overall mood towards Rust remains favorable, especially as Linus Torvalds and Greg Kroah-Hartman are convinced of the necessity of Rust integration. This is less about rapid progress and more about finding new talent for kernel development in the future. The reaction was mostly positive, judging by Ojeda's slides: - "2025 will be the year of Rust GPU drivers..." — Daniel Almedia - "I think the introduction of Rust in the kernel is one of the most exciting development experiments we've seen in a long time." — Andrea Righi - "[T]he project faces unique challenges. Rust's biggest weakness, as a language, is that relatively few people speak it. Indeed, Rust is not a language for beginners, and systems-level development complicates things even more. That said, the Linux kernel project has historically attracted developers who love challenging software — if there's an open source group willing to put the extra effort for a better OS, it's the kernel devs." — Carlos Bilbao - "I played a little with [Rust] in user space, and I just absolutely hate the cargo concept... I hate having to pull down other code that I do not trust. At least with shared libraries, I can trust a third party to have done the build and all that... [While Rust should continue to grow in the kernel], if a subset of C becomes as safe as Rust, it may make Rust obsolete..." Steven Rostedt Rostedt wasn't sure if Rust would attract more kernel contributors, but did venture this opinion. "I feel Rust is more of a language that younger developers want to learn, and C is their dad's language." But still "contention exists within the kernel development community between those pro-Rust and -C camps," argues The New Stack, citing the latest remarks from kernel maintainer Christoph Hellwig (who had earlier likened the mixing of Rust and C to cancer). Three days later Hellwig reiterated his position again on the Linux kernel mailing list: "Every additional bit that another language creeps in drastically reduces the maintainability of the kernel as an integrated project. The only reason Linux managed to survive so long is by not having internal boundaries, and adding another language completely breaks this. You might not like my answer, but I will do everything I can do to stop this. This is NOT because I hate Rust. While not my favourite language it's definitively one of the best new ones and I encourage people to use it for new projects where it fits. I do not want it anywhere near a huge C code base that I need to maintain." But the article also notes that Google "has been a staunch supporter of adding Rust to the kernel for Linux running in its Android phones." The use of Rust in the kernel is seen as a way to avoid memory vulnerabilities associated with C and C++ code and to add more stability to the Android OS. "Google's wanting to replace C code with Rust represents a small piece of the kernel but it would have a huge impact since we are talking about billions of phones," Ojeda told me after his talk. In addition to Google, Rust adoption and enthusiasm for it is increasing as Rust gets more architectural support and as "maintainers become more comfortable with it," Ojeda told me. "Maintainers have already told me that if they could, then they would start writing Rust now," Ojeda said. "If they could drop C, they would do it...." Amid the controversy, there has been a steady stream of vocal support for Ojeda. Much of his discussion also covered statements given by advocates for Rust in the kernel, ranging from lead developers of the kernel and including Linux creator Linus Torvalds himself to technology leads from Red Hat, Samsung, Google, Microsoft and others.

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Asahi Linux Lead Developer Hector Martin Resigns From Linux Kernel

Fri, 02/07/2025 - 09:40
Asahi lead developer Hector Martin, writing in an email: I no longer have any faith left in the kernel development process or community management approach. Apple/ARM platform development will continue downstream. If I feel like sending some patches upstream in the future myself for whatever subtree I may, or I may not. Anyone who feels like fighting the upstreaming fight themselves is welcome to do so. The Register points out that the action follows this interaction with Linux Torvalds. Hector Martin: If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas. Linus Torvalds: How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you. You think you know better. But the current process works. It has problems, but problems are a fact of life. There is no perfect. However, I will say that the social media brigading just makes me not want to have anything at all to do with your approach. Because if we have issues in the kernel development model, then social media sure as hell isn't the solution.

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Mixing Rust and C in Linux Likened To Cancer By Kernel Maintainer

Thu, 02/06/2025 - 14:22
A heated dispute has erupted in the Linux kernel community over the integration of Rust code, with kernel maintainer Christoph Hellwig likening multiple programming languages to "cancer" for the project's maintainability. The conflict centers on a proposed patch enabling Rust-written device drivers to access the kernel's DMA API, which Hellwig strongly opposed. While the dispute isn't about Rust itself, Hellwig argues that maintaining cross-language codebases severely compromises Linux's integrated nature. From a report: "Don't force me to deal with your shiny language of the day," he [Hellwig] wrote. "Maintaining multi-language projects is a pain I have no interest in dealing with. If you want to use something that's not C, be that assembly or Rust, you write to C interfaces and deal with the impedance mismatch yourself as far as I'm concerned." This resistance follows the September departure of Microsoft engineer Wedson Almeida Filho from the Rust for Linux project, citing "nontechnical nonsense."

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'I'm Done With Ubuntu'

Wed, 02/05/2025 - 15:01
Software developer and prolific blogger Herman Ounapuu, writing in a blog post: I liked Ubuntu. For a very long time, it was the sensible default option. Around 2016, I used the Ubuntu GNOME flavor, and after they ditched the Unity desktop environment, GNOME became the default option. I was really happy with it, both for work and personal computing needs. Estonian ID card software was also officially supported on Ubuntu, which made Ubuntu a good choice for family members. But then something changed. Ounapuu recounts how Ubuntu's bi-annual long-term support releases consistently broke functionality, from minor interface glitches to catastrophic system failures that left computers unresponsive. His breaking point came after multiple problematic upgrades affecting family members' computers, including one that rendered a laptop completely unusable during an upgrade from Ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04. Another incident left a relative's system with broken Firefox shortcuts and duplicate status bar icons after updating Lubuntu 18.04. Canonical's aggressive push of Snap packages has drawn particular criticism. The forced migration of system components from traditional Debian packages to Snaps resulted in compatibility issues, broken desktop shortcuts, and government ID card authentication failures. In one instance, he writes, a Snap-related bug in the GNOME desktop environment severely disrupted workplace productivity, requiring multiple system restarts to resolve. The author has since switched to Fedora, praising its implementation of Flatpak as a superior alternative to Snaps.

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Red Hat Plans to Add AI to Fedora and GNOME

Tue, 02/04/2025 - 15:50
In his post about the future of Fedora Workstation, Christian F.K. Schaller discusses how the Red Hat team plans to integrate AI with IBM's open-source Granite engine to enhance developer tools, such as IDEs, and create an AI-powered Code Assistant. He says the team is also working on streamlining AI acceleration in Toolbx and ensuring Fedora users have access to tools like RamaLama. From the post: One big item on our list for the year is looking at ways Fedora Workstation can make use of artificial intelligence. Thanks to IBMs Granite effort we know have an AI engine that is available under proper open source licensing terms and which can be extended for many different usecases. Also the IBM Granite team has an aggressive plan for releasing updated versions of Granite, incorporating new features of special interest to developers, like making Granite a great engine to power IDEs and similar tools. We been brainstorming various ideas in the team for how we can make use of AI to provide improved or new features to users of GNOME and Fedora Workstation. This includes making sure Fedora Workstation users have access to great tools like RamaLama, that we make sure setting up accelerated AI inside Toolbx is simple, that we offer a good Code Assistant based on Granite and that we come up with other cool integration points. "I'm still not sure how I feel about this approach," writes designer/developer and blogger, Bradley Taunt. "While IBM Granite is an open source model, I still don't enjoy so much artificial 'intelligence' creeping into core OS development. This also isn't something optional on the end-users side, like a desktop feature or package. This sounds like it's going to be built directly into the core system." "Red Hat has been pushing hard towards AI and my main concern is having this influence other operating system dev teams. Luckily things seems AI-free in BSD land. For now, at least."

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Popular Linux Orgs Freedesktop, Alpine Linux Are Scrambling For New Web Hosting

Tue, 02/04/2025 - 08:00
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: In what is becoming a sadly regular occurrence, two popular free software projects, X.org/Freedesktop.org and Alpine Linux, need to rally some of their millions of users so that they can continue operating. Both services have largely depended on free server resources provided by Equinix (formerly Packet.net) and its Metal division for the past few years. Equinix announced recently that it was sunsetting its bare-metal sales and services, or renting out physically distinct single computers rather than virtualized and shared hardware. As reported by the Phoronix blog, both free software organizations have until the end of April to find and fund new hosting, with some fairly demanding bandwidth and development needs. An issue ticket on Freedesktop.org's GitLab repository provides the story and the nitty-gritty needs of that project. Both the X.org foundation (home of the 40-year-old window system) and Freedesktop.org (a shared base of specifications and technology for free software desktops, including Wayland and many more) used Equinix's donated space. [...] Alpine Linux, a small, security-minded distribution used in many containers and embedded devices, also needs a new home quickly. As detailed in its blog, Alpine Linux uses about 800TB of bandwidth each month and also needs continuous integration runners (or separate job agents), as well as a development box. Alpine states it is seeking co-location space and bare-metal servers near the Netherlands, though it will consider virtual machines if bare metal is not feasible.

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